tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post8241460231712840943..comments2023-12-09T00:33:24.572-08:00Comments on Novel Matters: Getting Snarky at Donald MaassBonnie Grovehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11377519561074174038noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-80638450781448348622013-09-28T02:46:25.254-07:002013-09-28T02:46:25.254-07:00I found Don's book The First In Fiction to be ...I found Don's book The First In Fiction to be one of the best how-to craft books I've ever read. I wore my highlighter out on it, and keep it on my little shelf of advice books to leaf through on occasion. <br /><br />Unfortunately, Don's 21st Century book is a bust, IMO. And your comment about how often he references his other books parallels my thoughts. I came away with the impression that Don wrote this latest book for sales, and sales alone.<br /><br />To me, the best point he makes in it is to write from the gut, to go deep, because that is what today's readers respond to. <br /><br />I gave my copy of 21st Century to the library, free of highlights.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08997745795964099843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-48386877648002166862013-03-28T16:54:56.674-07:002013-03-28T16:54:56.674-07:00Oh, I was SO tempted to leave an anonymous comment...Oh, I was SO tempted to leave an anonymous comment and sign it Donald M. But as in most cases (wish it were all), good sense prevailed.<br /><br />The thing with which I struggle the most is getting my characters fully fleshed out. I find that by the time I've finished my first draft, I know them much better, at which point I can go through and do the needed repair work.<br /><br />And, as for creating flawed characters, I just received a less than stellar review of my latest novel in which the reviewer dinged my hero for neglecting to see something that she picked up. "After all, he's a doctor." News bulletin--doctors are human, we make mistakes. Matter of fact, everyone does. And when my characters stop making mistakes, there's nothing to write about.<br /><br />Snark on.Richard Mabryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15993592219849830777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-59573439554622953782013-03-26T19:30:00.213-07:002013-03-26T19:30:00.213-07:00Wonderful discussion everyone! I am charaterising...Wonderful discussion everyone! I am charaterising, er.... people watching in Phoenix this week. My oh my, the people! It is all very strange to me and I am not sure how to interpret their actions. But if anyone wants characters for novels they are here by the cactus load. Henrietta Frankenseenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-11043723116836290762013-03-26T15:39:41.541-07:002013-03-26T15:39:41.541-07:00The truth is always frightening. It's the mome...The truth is always frightening. It's the moment when we are hit with the fact that this is ME. And I'm me because I did this on purpose--with or without conscious intention. That the life I've let accumulate at my feet indelibly stains my soul. <br /><br />And that is shows on the outside, no matter how many mirrors I've ignored as I passed by.<br /><br /><br /> Bonnie Grovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377519561074174038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-40690037133550931962013-03-26T09:31:59.795-07:002013-03-26T09:31:59.795-07:00Bonnie: Amen!
Susie: We're pirates!!!
Megan:...Bonnie: Amen!<br /><br />Susie: We're pirates!!!<br /><br />Megan: It's clear who is honest and understands the human condition when you pick up a manuscript and who doesn't. Ironically, Christians seem especially bad at this. Have we forgotten that our "righteousness is as filthy rags"? That being nice isn't the same as walking upright with the Lord? That Christians--gasp!--still struggle with sin? <br /><br />When I teach beginning writing classes, I encourage people to become students of humans beings. People watch. Take notes. Read nonficiton books on issues we all deal with. Get out there and observe!<br /><br />D: There's no fooling teens about the truth. They live a very hard truth daily. Try walking down the halls of a middle school or high school. It's a battle zone. And you've learned an important lesson about crit partners. You gotta know when to listen and when to say thank you, and to file their comments in the round file. We've all done it. Don't feel guilty. Be truthful.<br /><br />Patti Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01210807015376289703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-73835386597662797892013-03-26T09:24:30.769-07:002013-03-26T09:24:30.769-07:00I like snarky Patti too. And as much as I like you...I like snarky Patti too. And as much as I like your posts on this book and author, I gotta tell you, I don't understand any of it. LOL<br />Any character, whether wholly negative or naively positive or somewhere in between (My question: Has he left anyone out?), can be alive, alert, and engaged in life. But how is that conveyed to the reader? There are three key techniques: the use of observation, opinions, and self-awareness. P. 100<br />I'm not that educated.And it scares me to think that I would need to follow what he is saying to write a good book.<br />I think good writing is a combination of knowledge of the so called "correct way" and just plain ole digging deep down and writing truthfully and with feeling. Write about events and people that stir something in you or whoever you hope will read it someday. If I close a book and cannot stop thinking about the characters or story, or specific lines....then it was a good book whether or not the protagonist did this or the antagonist does that.<br /><br />But, alas maybe I am just showing my inexperience and lack of education.<br /><br />Snark on Patti!Josey Bozzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01726048506211545721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-89469387484053327892013-03-26T08:43:34.888-07:002013-03-26T08:43:34.888-07:00Thank you for your post. I got an email from one o...Thank you for your post. I got an email from one of my crit partners that shook me up a bit. SE wanted to put down my ms b/c my teen character made two errors that caused her trouble at a band co petition. The partner said she lost respect for my protagonist and would be done with the book at that point. I am writing to teens who feel they are sometimes flawed beyond redemption. I want my characters to be messy and real. Your post affirmed this. Now I can shake off and keep pressing on. Thanks.D. Gudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258476859577815477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-86267803254399546492013-03-25T22:45:24.095-07:002013-03-25T22:45:24.095-07:00Thinking a bit more about it, our bookshelves at h...Thinking a bit more about it, our bookshelves at home are littered with books by Terry Pratchett (fantasy/satire) and Agatha Christie (murder mysteries). The reason such two disparate authors are our family favourites is because they're both such acute observers of human nature, and therefore so interesting! Pratchett in particular has an uncanny ability to hold a mirror up to our society in the most absurd way, and although he's writing very silly stories with very fantastic characters it's hard not to nod your head in appreciation of the depths of his understanding. <br />Megan Sayerhttp://www.megansayer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-898753698269499282013-03-25T22:28:15.339-07:002013-03-25T22:28:15.339-07:00I think that truth is the only way to write, reall...I think that truth is the only way to write, really. I've been reading some online forum teaching thingy over the last few days on the same topic, and some people just don't seem to be understanding basic human traits and characteristics. We're all a crazy, mixed up bunch, but we tend to all be crazy and mixed up in the same ways - we just express it differently. The only way we can give ourselves freedom and permission to tap into those places is first to recognise that quite a lot of people who read our work will be drawn to it because they understand. Megan Sayerhttp://www.megansayer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-85358057441284091272013-03-25T22:04:48.731-07:002013-03-25T22:04:48.731-07:00Sometimes that truth is scary. But we are brave, a...Sometimes that truth is scary. But we are brave, aren't we? Susie Finkbeinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02134090068018561836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-48745945032314188972013-03-25T16:24:33.699-07:002013-03-25T16:24:33.699-07:00Not for sensitive eyes (I'm going to use naugh...Not for sensitive eyes (I'm going to use naughty words)<br /><br />Here's how to write great characters: Look inside. Then write the whole damn truth. <br /><br />We will struggle until we can do that much.Bonnie Grovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377519561074174038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-8359215656768562452013-03-25T12:24:28.547-07:002013-03-25T12:24:28.547-07:00I'm appreciating this conversation. My charact...I'm appreciating this conversation. My characters tend toward flatness. Marianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12990101542996298555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-17998478334310524302013-03-25T12:22:24.392-07:002013-03-25T12:22:24.392-07:00Jennifer, hiding out with cinnamon buns sounds PER...Jennifer, hiding out with cinnamon buns sounds PERFECT!!! And what an interesting way to grow your characters. <br /><br />Getting our characters to that place where they will contradict themselves under the right kind of motivation is a very tough trick. You sound like a brave, pirate-like writer. And that's a good thing.<br />Patti Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01210807015376289703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-2857103645556307842013-03-25T11:59:30.583-07:002013-03-25T11:59:30.583-07:00(Note-I was up at 4:35am , but went to bed at 12:4...(Note-I was up at 4:35am , but went to bed at 12:45am. I'm kinda tired, looped, really...)<br /><br />Patti-come on over. I have some cinnamon buns left over. Mmmm.<br />My boys are hockey players, they'll cross check Maass if he gets annoying. If he's going to mail in the effort, he earns the criticism.<br />I think, for moi, the most important thing I can do to develop characters is write them as perfect as I can, then back track and add all the faults they need to become human. My hero is strong, confident, deeply spiritual and, okay, hawt. But what is the flipside of that kind of person? Aloof, arrogant, un-teachable and ...there's no flipside to hawt. Oh wait, vain! <br />Character who took my breath away? I've typed several different ones, I can't just pick one!! <br /><br /><br />I had a lovely crit partner get somewhat grumpy (RED FONT in the notes)with me because I wrote the hero doing something she really didn't like. "That doesn't sound like X at all!!"<br /><br /><br />"Umm, HE is fake but who were you mad at? Me or HIM?"<br /><br />Nailed it.Jennifer Majorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12696261499182486196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-2843415626029784992013-03-25T09:56:58.806-07:002013-03-25T09:56:58.806-07:00Susie: Snarky Patti doesn't get out often. So ...Susie: Snarky Patti doesn't get out often. So glad you like her.<br /><br />I agree that observation is the best way to "learn" characterization. We must be students of the human experience and our behavior, especially how we act out our inner landscape. It is possible to have a teacher turn our shoulders, tell us where to look, challenge us to sharpen our eye. That's what disappointed me about this chapter. <br /><br />Bonnie: Yes! Feeling lighter already. Mwah!Patti Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01210807015376289703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-80733367342172127082013-03-25T08:29:53.175-07:002013-03-25T08:29:53.175-07:00I believe the day we look at the conventional thin...I believe the day we look at the conventional thinking about the craft we labour in and think to ourselves: This is not enough--and not just think it, but say it aloud--is the day we begin to pick the lock on the chains that hold our true artist self in bondage. <br /><br />And that, my friend, is a very good day indeed.<br /><br />Bonnie Grovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377519561074174038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-6108521342916674542013-03-25T07:23:35.169-07:002013-03-25T07:23:35.169-07:00You know, I kind of like snarky Patti!
Jonathan ...You know, I kind of like snarky Patti! <br /><br />Jonathan Safran Foer writes the kind of characters that are so incredibly real that I get overwhelmed (in a good way). They are complex. Just like real people. <br /><br />Honestly, I don't think that reading about characterization is the best way to learn how to write characters. In my humble opinion, spending time with real, flesh and bone people is the best. I've learned how to write characters by observing alive, made in the image of God people. THAT is how you write an authentic character. <br /><br />Susie Finkbeinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02134090068018561836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-12398270443158538622013-03-25T07:05:37.752-07:002013-03-25T07:05:37.752-07:00Just what I'm starting to believe, Ike.Just what I'm starting to believe, Ike. Patti Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01210807015376289703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6360410252358941163.post-37149666755692321432013-03-25T06:40:14.690-07:002013-03-25T06:40:14.690-07:00No. Mr. Mass has written some quality books on wr...No. Mr. Mass has written some quality books on writing in the past (I have two on my shelves)but this one doesn't sound like another. Too many books on writing look as though they were written with the idea to make money rather than to provide help and instruction to other writers. Time reading about writing is time I'm not writing. I can't waste it.<br />Ike Harrisnoreply@blogger.com